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Dammaging an Industry

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    Posted: 20 July 2004 at 2:00pm

WHY?

I used to do just what some of you advocate here. Yes, I downloaded a few tracks from Napster and the others. Yes, I said a few tracks. Well, I went out and bought the CD due to the crappy quality of the download anyway. Due to my stupidity and the rest of you out there, condoning the ripping of CDs and streams are killing the artists, record and broadcast industry. Due to this stupidity, our broadcast costs have almost tripled due to the fees we have to pay and now. For those that of you that don’t have a clue, we now have someone that should have no rights collecting fees, and that someone is the Library of Congress also known as CARP. Again, I repeat due to my stupidity in the beginning and the rest of you stateside or offshore that probably will never figure this out are screwing yourselves, the artists, record labels, and the broadcast industry. Why do you think most of your favorite radio stations disappeared from streaming on the internet?  Well, for those that can’t add 1+1 without stamping their foot four times, it’s due to the skyrocketing fees that are being charged now to broadcasters. My fees now are in excess of 72 to 100 K a year due to this entire BS ripping (stealing) of music.

 I guess the psychological reason behind this could be.
(1) They charge too much for CDs.
(2) I can’t buy my favorite music in the country where I live, so I’ll steal it.
(3) Nah, Nah, I have more music then you do.
(4) Cool, look how much music I can get on this hard drive.
(5) Ah Ha Ha Ha, I’m getting back at the record labels and stores for charging too much for a CD.
(6) Last but not least, kleptomania, (Obsessive impulse to steal regardless of economic need. An unconscious symbolic value associated with a stolen item.)

Now I will address the above.
(1) In case you have not noticed, the prices have come down almost 50 to 60 percent on most CDs. For those still trying to grasp this, the cost in the late 80s and early 90s for a CD was varied from 18 to 27 dollars, the cost is now ranging from 9 dollars to as high as 16 dollars. Ok, some new released CDs are on an average of 18 dollars.
(2) Well I am sincerely sorry to hear that, but not about you stealing. There are groups in some countries that are willing to help get various items into an oppressed country, which include music, and for free. If oppression is not the problem, someone can still probably help you.
(3) Having more then someone else, be happy with what you already have and stop trying to compete, there is really no gain in this type of attitude. Life is more then material things.
(4) Try placing some educational things on the hard drive or how about using the computer to make legal money with some type of legal business.  Do something constructive not destructive with your computer. How about becoming an Internet Broadcaster playing legal content so you can experience the costs that Broadcasters now have to pay due to what some of you are doing to the industry.
(5) Who are you really getting back at? Not the artists, the record labels, or the stores. Your just hurting yourself by possibly causing the record labels and stores to start raising the prices up again to the above prices due to losses in revenue. By the way, in case you forgot a couple of the retailers, were sued for overcharging for there high priced sales of CDs. You see. They were caught and they had a large class action suit payout. Some of us even got a check or coupon in the mail. So there you have it, they are being watched so why have the bother of taking it into your own hands, when someone else is doing the job for us. The actions of a few retailers do not include the artists, the record industry.
(6) Get help. There are doctors and clinics out there to help you with this disease of the mind. There is even help free in some cases.
Now I will add one more thing to this list that does not correspond with anything above. This may be in the category for the lazy folk not for those that are oppressed. Get a job, and for the under aged going on 30 in their minds. Earn an allowance by doing some work for your Mom Or Dad. Overall, earn the money to by the CD.

OK. Do some of you get the idea? I hope so. What you are doing here is destroying the music industry and destroying broadcasters like myself. What did I do to you as a broadcaster? What did the individual artist do to you? Before you answer these two questions, give it some mature thought. Here is some help for your thought process. If it were not for artists, sharing their works with you and not storing them away for their own use and families use, you would not have the music you are taking advantage of now. It takes time to write and compose a song or piece of music. If it were not for the record label’s work, recording the music and distributing your favorite music, you would not have the music you are taking advantage of now. For the record, the artist has to pay for his or her music to be placed on that round plastic disk and distribution of that disc. If it were not for us Broadcasters, you would not even know what artists are out there in the genre of music you listening too and, you would not have the music you are taking advantage of now.

 I have over 300 CDs in my personal collection, which I use for my broadcast station. Every one of these CDs is paid for out of my own pocket. I am still buying music for my listeners and my listening pleasure. In addition, for the days of my stupidity of downloading, I ended up buying the CD anyway. What a waist of time that was downloading one song form an artist’s CD when the whole CD is filled with quality sounding tracks from that artist that are just as good or better then the download track. I belong to a CD resale company that has excellent prices. They are a bit thin on some artists and record labels that I would like to buy, so I go elsewhere to purchase what I need.
By the way 1+1=2    (1, the artist) + (1, the record label) = (2, the sum of only you and I) not the sum of 4, you, me and the people that you are uploading to or downloading your music from.

 
The music industry is a terrible thing to waist. Support an Artist.

Thanks for reading this.
Your local Broadcaster

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No-Name View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No-Name Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2004 at 4:46am

I agree with you all the way.

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Fragyman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fragyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2004 at 11:39am
One Question:
What do u say to those ppl, who record musik from the radio on tape?
Do They steal musik???
And What do u say to those ppl, who record their famous films on video tape?
Do they steal films?
I dont think recording a radio is stealing. its even hard work to get the title, u want. And the stations have already payed for the musik, they buy the musik for public usage (i dont know the right english word) like the "real" radio stations. they serv it for u, so why dont just take it?
i think the real problems are shared files on networks like shareaza or kazaa. but ive never downloaded on such platforms. ive recorded my musik on tape. but now there is no good musik left on these stations. So i decided, to continue record my music, but now the music comes from inet not from the air...
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bleh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bleh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fragyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2004 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by bleh bleh wrote:



Should mean???
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BigRed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 5:45pm
Well Broadcaster,
    I dont know who you are or why you are boradcasting music at all. I Read your post in its entirity and I have to say I dont understand your problem. I like programs like Napster, I use BitTorrent and yes I now use Station Ripper. I guess my question to you is why are you brodcasting over the internet? If its to reatch people well you are, If its to change people with music you are its just that now its way more effective and long lasting. If you cant aford to broad cast music than you shouldnt. I just started ripping radio stations this week and the reason it because I want to find good music and buy it. Its that simple. So we hurt the internet radio station. what are they there for "to be lisstened to" were not hurting it were giving them an audience. Its not stealing either its one of the few legal ways to download music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fragyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2004 at 8:08am
BigRed, youre right!

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Dave U View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave U Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2004 at 9:37am

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blank_media_tax):

17 USC 1008 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1008.html), from the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, says that non-commercial copying by consumers of digital and analog musical recordings is not copyright infringement. Non-commercial includes such things as resale not in the course of business, perhaps of normal use working copies which are no longer wanted. It's unlikey to include resale of copies in bulk and Napster tried to use the Section 1008 defence but was rejected because it was a business.

From House Report No. 102-873(I), September 17, 1992: "In the case of home taping, the [Section 1008] exemption protects all noncommercial copying by consumers of digital and analog musical recordings" .

From House Report No. 102-780(I), August 4, 1992: "In short, the reported legislation [Section 1008] would clearly establish that consumers cannot be sued for making analog or digital audio copies for private noncommercial use".

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law differnce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote law differnce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2004 at 11:16am

all it's also depending on the laws of each country!

For example recording from a german Radio Station is totally legal, since I already paid my GEZ Fee(radio and TV fee) I am allowed to record Music from radio stations! From Internet? I don't know! Is it a radio Station should be totally legal, is it a illegal Stream? is it illegal of course too!

 

seen?

 

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echoy97 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote echoy97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2004 at 6:57am
no one is gonna read your message if you make it that loooong.

How long have you been a broadcaster ? You don't know in the old days, people were using cassette recorder copy songs from radio, and use VCR to copy movies from rental tape or dvd ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Paine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2004 at 5:26pm

Why I “steal” music:

 

I’ve spent way too much money on one-track-wonders.  You know the kind.  The track of the CD that got airtime sounded good, but the rest of the CD sucked.  (I’m looking at you, Chumbawumba).

 

I’ve spent way too much money buying music I already owned:  greatest hits CD’s with two previously unreleased tracks, “re-mastered” albums with the alternate takes that are slightly different from the original, the special box sets, and all the other gimmick releases.  Then there's all the CD's I've bought to replace the records, the cassettes, and the odd 8-track or two I purchased back in the day.

 

I’ve spent way too much money trusting an artist’s reputation.  Remember when Metallica made albums that didn’t suck?

 

I’ve spent way too much money trusting music critics’ opinions of music.

 

Truly great music can’t be appreciated in a single listening, but crap is immediately obvious.  The music industry made far more money when we all had to pay first and find out if their product was crap later.  Now I have the opportunity to give a release a couple of listens before I plunk down my money (whether its 9 dollars or 90).  If the music industry doesn’t like the situation they can drop the gimmicks and ensure that their product is consistently worth the price they ask.

 

Or they can hire an army of lawyers and sue us all.  Oh, wait…

Edited by Guest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trafficone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2004 at 7:23pm
    Is music stealing really a problem? No!  It does NOT hurt record sales, sales were in a NATURAL LOW.  It happens all the time!  Every business has a low, cars, movies, etc.  This was just a poorly placed low, but people still got tired of the music they were ripping, tired of the ads, tired of whatnot, and went back to buying music.  According to this article, more than before.
    Stealing music is wrong, but it doesn't hurt anybody.  If they gave less to the artists and more to the techies down on the floor that are maxing out the sound to "make the song louder" and working their butts off to make this CD sound louder than anyone elses.  That in itself is ANOTHER rant, which has been mentioned in many places, so i won't go into it.
    My point is, if you're gonna steal music, be nice about it.  Don't steal from someone who NEEDS the money, and don't steal just for stealing's sake.  Like the music, if you like it enough, and the artist doesn't have millions, drop him/her/them a line, maybe throw in a couple bucks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ripper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2004 at 7:32pm

Umm.. damaging.. yeah..

BMI has reported revenues of $673 million for the 2004 fiscal year, an increase of nearly $43 million, 6.8% over the prior year. Royalties of more than $573 million were distributed to our songwriters, composers and music publishers, an increase of $40 million or 7.5% from the previous year, and the most ever paid by an American PRO."

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20040903/1228236_F.shtml

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TigerTigerUK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2004 at 9:53pm

 Through station ripper I have been expose to some really iverse music-who would have thought Japanese pop or Slovakian music was so cool! I have not bought a CD in the last nine months before station ripper-and I have bought several recently. Station ripper is actually a positive thing for a morbid music industry.

                revolution

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeriatricFlowerChild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2004 at 6:53pm

I never heard of Peer to Peer file sharing until Metalica declared war on Napster.  I grew up in the 60's on Acid Rock, so I was curious.  My children re-educated me and I tuned in to Metalica.  I now know that Metalica is not my thing.  After listening to them I can understand why they sued.  When your sound is that mediocre, you need every penny you can get.

  Going after Napster was just dumb.  I tried KaZaA and discovered it created more problems that solved.  Downloading was a royal pain.  I was frequently cut-off and lost entire downloads because other sources couldn't be, found.  It was slow as all get-out and ate up all of my,  40 hours for one week. Just to get one CD's worth of music.

  And the music... I don't think the Mill's Brothers, Cole Porter are going to sue.  I just can't find what I'm looking for at Boarders or Tower.

Peer to peer is just not worth it.  The last straw was when I got a RAT (Remote Access Token) during a download. I burned the CD that had the KaZaA setup program and had do a full restoration of my hard drive.

Radio stations are public domain and have been tape recorded over the last 40 years.  Station ripping is tape recording without the tape.  Those who charge for broadcasting need to find advertisers, sponsors,the old fashioned way and stop whining. 

The same people who charge have the same mentality as those who install pay toilets and pay air hoses at gas stations.  Just plain GREEDY.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shogunata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 1:21am
Someone tell that moron that station recording music whetever digital or analog is legal for personal use
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C.Sherman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2004 at 10:52am

To all Ripping Agent Users:

56k is near FM Radio (analog), 128 is not! It's digital BIG DIFFERENCE!

Using cassette recorder copy songs from radio, and use VCR to copy movies from rental tape or dvd is ANALOG!!!

Ripping a 128k stream or any stream is DIGITAL!
Why not rip 24 to 64k stations?
it's the same as RADIO!
Oh you must not want a copy but you want a "Perfect Copy"

FM = Analog = Cassette (Ok Copy minus the noise)
Internet Radio = Digital = CD (Perfect Copy)

Can you see the problem that RIAA has with this?
BMI, ASCAP SESAC and RIAA charges Internet radio per quarter for every song played and every tune in plus a copy of the server logs with your IP/Player/Tune in Time/Tune out Time and songs listen to in it.

Oh your special and should get it for free!  RIGHT?

The old days don't compair to today!

Recording Music from internet radio is copyright infringement and is illegal and coverd on the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998) http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf
 
Cary Sherman
Recording Industry Association of America!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hdestm8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2004 at 9:52am
Originally posted by C.Sherman C.Sherman wrote:

To all Ripping Agent Users:

56k is near FM Radio (analog), 128 is not! It's digital BIG DIFFERENCE!

Using cassette recorder copy songs from radio, and use VCR to copy movies from rental tape or dvd is ANALOG!!!

Ripping a 128k stream or any stream is DIGITAL!
Why not rip 24 to 64k stations?
it's the same as RADIO!
Oh you must not want a copy but you want a "Perfect Copy"

FM = Analog = Cassette (Ok Copy minus the noise)
Internet Radio = Digital = CD (Perfect Copy)

 
The old days don't compair to today!

Recording Music from internet radio is copyright infringement and is illegal and coverd on the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998) http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf
 
Cary Sherman
Recording Industry Association of America!

 

So as long as I rip 64kb/s which according to you is Analog FM that is fine with you. So, therefor you would have no problem with me trading 64KB/s or the like on Kazaa as well.

 

The old days absolutely compare to today there is no difference between recording a FM radio broadcast in the 70's vs recording a internet radio broadcast today. It is still personal use which is allowed under the "Fair Use' doctrine and was reaffirmed in the "Sony vs Betamax" case. Of course as everybody knows the RIAA does not subscribe to the "Fair Use" doctrine. The only difference is the technology of the broadcast and the technology of the recording device is significantly better.

 

Radio stations from as far back as I can remember have paid royalties to the recording industry and yet it is legal to record them, so what is the difference now? Internet radio stations have to pay royalties just like the AM/FM stations, so what is the difference. Radio stations have to pay for expensive towers, equipment and even licensing fees to broadcast, yet it is still legal to record radio, yet Internet radio only has to pay for bandwidth. Radio offsets cost by advertising, most internet radio stations advertise as well to help offset the cost.

 

Anyway, what I would really like you to point out is where in the DMCA is it illegal to record internet broadcast for personal use. The DMCA only deals with the transmission of digital radio broadcast and "Ephemral" recording to facilitate digital transmission of sound recording. As long as I do not broadcast or rebroadcast my recordings I am NOT in violation of the DMCA.

 

 



Edited by Hdestm8r
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echoy97 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote echoy97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2004 at 3:44am
Damage what industry ?  Now matter how people download and steal mp3, singers , song writers and recording companies are still making money, a lot of money.   They are making money faster than those who are earning minum wage.  

 If they are really losing money, then why are there stil  CDs for sale out there ? When was the last time you see a recording company file for bankrupt ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RMSe17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2004 at 3:21am
I am still attempting to figure out if station recording is legal or not..
and it's confusing to see people say both things at once..  grr..

But anyway, there is a difference between recording off a radio and recording a stream off the net:

Difference between recording off a radio and off a stream is that  you  do not occupy a slot  on a radio station.  Station broadcasts waves, and everyone and their mother  can  listen and recod the broadcast.  With internet radio, you occupy a slot, and there is a specific connection to you, via which sertain amount of data is sent, and bandwidth is used.   
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